Kicking This Anti-Protest NYPD Unit to the Curb with Walter Masterson

Resources

Follow Walter on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waltermasterson?lang=en

Sign up for our anti-SRG campaign: nyclu.org/srg-signup

Tell Council Members to support the CURB Act: https://action.aclu.org/send-message/curb-nypd-abuse-protesters

Learn more about the SRG: https://www.nyclu.org/commentary/new-yorkers-right-to-protest-is-under-attack-heres-how-a-new-bill-can-protect-it

More on the buffer zone legislation that Walter mentions: https://www.nyclu.org/podcast/inside-the-struggle-against-anti-protest-buffer-zone-laws

Transcript

[00:00] Isabelle:

It is very difficult to predict anything that the SRG does except the fact that they will escalate. And they use the same tactics in different ways, in different situations. But every New Yorker that has been to protests regularly knows what the SRG means when they arrive, even if they don’t know what the SRG is.

[00:19] Simon:

This is Rights This Way, a podcast from the New York Civil Liberties Union, the ACLU of New York State. I’m Simon McCormack, editorial manager at the NYCLU, and your host for this podcast, your best listen for the civil rights and liberties issues that impact New Yorkers most.

With Donald Trump waging war on free speech and ICE officers killing people in broad daylight, our right to protest is more important than ever. But too often when New Yorkers take to the streets to speak out, they’re met with NYPD violence. Often the officers leading the anti-protest charge are part of the NYPD’s notoriously brutal Strategic Response Group, or the SRG. The SRG’s training specifically names anti-Trump demonstrators, the Black Lives Matter movement, and Occupy Wall Street as examples of “violent protestors.” The unit’s members have demonstrated a clear pattern of targeting people of color, using excessive force, and generating higher rates of misconduct complaints compared to other officers. On today’s episode, we’ll discuss the SRG with comedian and political satirist Walter Masterson. And we’ll also get into the history of the unit and legislation designed to curtail the SRG’s violence with an NYCLU expert and organizer.

We’ll get to all of this in just a moment, but first I’d like to ask you to please download, rate, review, and subscribe to Rights This Way. It will help more people find this podcast. Before we get started, just a quick note that outside guests on this show do not represent the NYCLU and their views are their own.

And now I’m joined by two guests. Walter Masterson is a comedian, satirist, and political activist. And Isabelle Leyva is an NYCLU organizing campaign strategist. Isabelle, Walter, welcome to Rights This Way.

[02:15] Isabelle:

Thank you. Thank you for having us.

[02:17] Walter:

Hello. Thanks for having us.

[02:18] Simon:

Yeah, it’s great to have you both. Isabelle, I’m going to start with you to just lay out for us what is the NYPD’s Strategic Response Group and why is it so harmful to New Yorkers?

[02:34] Isabelle:

Sure. So the Strategic Response Group or the SRG is a militarized unit of the NYPD that really focuses on policing protest. So the unit was originally created in 2015 as a unit that would both do counter-terrorism and also police protest. And that was met with a lot of criticism, and we think a very just criticism, raising the issue with having a unit that does both things and the equating of terrorism and protest. So the NYPD actually came out and said, “Nevermind, this unit will actually just focus on counter-terrorism.” But unfortunately, only a few months later, they were deployed to Black Lives Matter protests at the time in 2015 and really have been a staple of protest policing ever since.

Some of the things that make the SRG one of the worst arms of the NYPD is that they’re trained in militarized tactics, militarized crowd control tactics, and their trainings actually have very little emphasis on protecting First Amendment rights. So these officers are deployed at will historically and have high, high rates of misconduct, racial bias. And these officers actually sign up to join the unit, it’s a voluntary unit. So what we find is that a lot of officers that already have lengthy misconduct records come into the SRG looking for “more action” as folks on the inside of have said. So all of these worlds collide. You have militarized training, officers that already have records of misconduct, and then there’s really very little transparency around how this unit operates, how big it actually is. And all the while it’s costing New Yorkers approximately $133 million per year.

[04:14] Simon:

Wow. And Isabelle, am I right that there’s also, their training is problematic for a number of reasons, but one of them is that they in the training, it identifies as examples of, I forget what the term they use, but if you’re-

[04:31] Isabelle:

Violent groups.

[04:31] Simon:

Violent groups, right. So violent groups are things like Occupy, anti-Trump protestors, Black Lives Matter protestors. Is that right?

[04:39] Isabelle:

Yes. So that is in their SRG bike squad manual that was leaked several years ago by The Intercept. So they really are trained to target racial justice protestors and specific protestors on the left. And we’ve seen that play out in real time where even at protests where there are counter protestors and protestors, we see that bias play out where the SRG consistently polices one part of the protest and not the other. We saw it a lot in the 2020 era when a lot of MAGA caravans were coming to New York City and we’ve seen it consistently since then.

[05:13] Simon:

Got it. And Walter, I’m curious, can you talk about how and why you got involved in the campaign against the SRG?

[05:23] Walter:

Oh, yeah. Isabelle hit me up. By the time she had hit me up about this, I had just been fed up with them. There’s a NYC for Abortion Rights, they would constantly counter protest this church that would march to Planned Parenthood. They did it every Saturday. And I mean, this isn’t for a big polarizing issue. This is New York. This is abortion. These people were protesting abortion in SoHo. And they had a full… I mean, Isabelle, I mean, you can back me up here. I mean, they had a squad backing them up, this church, while they marched and harassed people in front of Planned Parenthood. And I mean, they had an insane amount of cops. And it was just the SRG and the SRG was incredibly violent. They would escalate.

The community affairs officers would constantly have to come in and deescalate situations that the SRG just started because SRG’s response was more force. So anytime they were met with any resistance, it was more force, which would cause… When you do that to a crowd of protestors, you’re meeting a lot more resistance. So it just would escalate into stratospheric levels. When the regular NYPD comes along and has to deescalate it, that is absolutely absurd to me. And I’ve watched this play out numerous times where the regular NYPD is a welcome relief.

[07:10] Simon:

Yeah, no, that is a good juxtaposition. I’m curious, as you’ve gotten more into the campaign and as your experience at protests has increased, are there any other personal experiences with the SRG that you find noteworthy or that stick with you?

[07:31] Walter:

Yeah, yeah. My favorite, and this is just my theory, I don’t have proof for this, this is just an observation, they would police… Because anytime there’s a pro-Palestine protest throughout New York, the SRG would be there. And I feel like whenever the SRG wanted to just go home, they would just start arresting people. Because there were times when it was just a very boring pro-Palestine protest. They’re just marching and chanting, nothing crazy is happening. There’s always a cutoff time. It’s like two hours, and the police can’t say, “Hey, that’s enough protest. Go home.” They’re like, “Eh.” And they just start to arrest people and then it gets that. Then you see that stuff on the news where pro-Palestine protestors are out of control, and it’s literally them just reacting to having their friends arrested.

And whoever they’re arresting is always the most innocuous looking person. And this is stuff for stepping off the sidewalk. Suddenly this is like the floor is lava and the SRG is playing the floor is lava with the sidewalk and the street. And this is a very arbitrary thing that they enact. They’re like, “You know what? The sidewalk, okay, that’s base. Step off that.” And they play it as if this is school ground, like a playground thing where like one step, “Oh my, that’s it. You are getting locked up. How dare you?” So that’s what I’ve seen that this absurdity. I shouldn’t know officers by their name and their face. This is New York City. The fact that I know officers, I’m like, “Oh, I know that guy. I know that guy.” You’re bad at your job if I know who you are.

[09:22] Simon:

Absolutely. And so Isabelle, same question to you. I mean, I know you have extensive experience with the SRG as an organizer. Can you talk about what you’ve seen SRG officers do on the streets of New York, what sort of tactics, what sort of behavior you’ve seen?

[09:41] Isabelle:

Yeah, I think I’ve attended probably over 500 protests in the capacity of documenting police conduct. And part of my role is running our protest monitoring program where we train folks to go out and document police conduct at protests. And something that I tell people often when we talk about the SRG is that when I train protest monitors, one of the biggest parts of the training is that if you see SRG, things will likely escalate. And then you have to put all these safety protocols into action because they are such an indication of escalation.

I’ve seen many things. I have seen the SRG break people’s bones. One of the unique things about the SRG is they’re the only police unit in the city that has a bicycle squad that is used interfacing with the public in the way that their bicycle squad is. So these officers are in full gear on these very heavy bicycles that they use to either trap people for arrest or force people to move in certain directions. And one of the most dangerous ways that they use them is that they will actually encircle protestors on the bikes and then pick up the bikes and use them as battering rams against people’s bodies. I have seen SRG officers actually swing bikes at people’s heads. The amount of injuries that I have seen on the ground, from my experience, the vast majority of those injuries come either through interactions with the SRG or because of escalation caused by the SRG.

So the SRG shows up, a melee ensues. It might not have been an SRG officer that injured someone, but this escalation would not have occurred without the SRG being there. And like Walter was saying, one of the big things that we do see is that often we know when officers are getting tired, we actually start to anticipate escalation because that is a way for them to go home. They cannot just say, “Everybody go home, this protest is done.” But they can say like, “Oh, someone put a sticker on a light pole. That means that we’re going to arrest everybody,” or, “We’re going to shut this protest down.”

So it’s this kind of cat and mouse game that the SRG very often plays where they will play a warning and say, “Get out of the road, get onto the sidewalk,” and then they will arrest people on the sidewalk. It is very difficult to predict anything that the SRG does except the fact that they will escalate. And they use the same tactics in different ways in different situations, but every New Yorker that has been to protest regularly knows what the SRG means when they arrive, even if they don’t know what the SRG is.

And that’s something that I’ve really learned in community, educating people about this. There are so many New Yorkers that have interacted with the SRG and didn’t have a name for them. They just said, “These military guys showed up in this full gear and I didn’t know who they were, and then everything went left and it became chaotic and dangerous.”

[12:33] Simon:

Yeah, absolutely. Walter, I was watching some of it the other day, you’ve given satirical testimony about the SRG at city council hearings. Can you describe for our listeners, can you talk about what that consists of?

[12:50] Walter:

I went there as some… Isabelle, there was like hours of testimony against the SRG both days. I mean, it was exhausting listening to people. And it was like everyone is telling their personal story of how they were injured, sometimes permanently, by the SRG specifically. I decided to go up and give testimony as someone defending the SRG. I was sent by the NYPD to defend the SRG. That was how I introduced myself.

Video: Walter Masterson:

If we get rid of the SRG, what’s next? Community policing based on deescalation, investing in communities and tackling income inequality, offering long-term solutions for housing? I mean, where does it end? By disbanding the SRG, we’re sending the wrong message. We’re telling anti-abortion protesters that they can’t physically harass patients outside of Planned Parenthood. We’re telling the Proud Boys that there will be nobody to protect them when they want to harass the LGBTQ outside of a library. We’re telling Black Lives Matter protestors that they can peacefully protest without being kettled, pepper sprayed, or beaten with batons.

[14:12] Walter:

I said thank you to all the city council people that they marched with Black Lives Matter. They said abortion matters, LGBTQ matters, and then they turned around and didn’t support the CURB Act. They turned around and gave full-throated support of the SRG. And I just read the list of names. I could do that again. God, do we still get the greatest hits here? I mean, Isabelle, we got Gale Brewer, Julie Mennen, Mercedes Narcisse. Help me out. There’s got to be a few more names on there.

[14:53] Isabelle:

Shekar Krishnan.

[14:55] Walter:

These are Democrats in very progressive districts that smile and wave to everyone and say, “Oh, we got to get rid of Trump. We got to get rid of ICE.” And they will turn right around and support the SRG. I understand how someone like Vickie Paladino doesn’t… I understand why she supports the SRG. However, I’m talking about the Democrats that were elected to represent their community. To do that and not is absolutely absurd. I would actually like to spend more time calling them out than I do want to spend the SRG because these are the people that make this city awful.

[15:50] Isabelle:

We have 25 folks signed on.

[15:52] Walter:

How many do we need?

[15:53] Isabelle:

Well, to pass it, we need 26. But the issue here is that you don’t need a certain number of co-sponsors to get a hearing, but you need a hearing to get a bill passed. And what’s happening now is we’re being blocked from getting a hearing. I think it’s a combination of things, but the person that has the decision-making power here are Oswald Feliz and Julie Menin.

[16:15] Simon:

We’ll get back to the show in just a moment. But first, if you’ve been enjoying the podcast and want to support our work, check out our merch store at shop.nyclu.org. We have a great selection of items perfect for listeners like you. Our store line lets you tell the world what you think and who you support, whether you’re marching in the streets or arguing about politics with your extended family. And right now, you can get 20% off your order with promo code PODCAST20. That’s 20% off with promo code PODCAST20 at shop.nyclu.org. Thanks, and now back to the show.

I’m curious, Walter, what has been the reaction from people to your satirical testimony, both legislators and people attending?

[17:06] Walter:

Normally everyone walks out of the room for this testimony, right? The last time I was there was the Buffer Act. I’ve been there for so many testimonies. Like the CURB Act, they leave, they walk out. Even the people that are supporting it, they got other stuff to do. They can’t sit there for 12 hours. It’s annoying to give a testimony to an empty chamber, but I understand.

The Buffer Act, I sat in on that testimony. And you had Inna Vernikov, Dinowitz clapping back on people right after they gave testimony. I was actually like, “Please do that to me. I am so…” Because they were doing it to people like a sophomore in college that just took their first sociology class. I’m like, “No, no. I would love for you to try and take me head on.” Because I was like, “I have receipts. I’m ready to take you on. I’m recording this. I’m putting it on the internet. I dare you.” They did not take the bait. Dinowitz just smirked the entire time, said nothing. And I was like, “Okay, you goddamn know better than to say something during this, because you know what’s coming back at you.” So that is the only time I’ve seen them actively part of the testimony.

[18:33] Simon:

And we definitely, listeners, should check out our Buffer Zone podcast. We’ve definitely covered that issue extensively on the show and elsewhere.

[18:46] Walter:

It ties in, because it’s like you have a lot of these Democrats here that don’t get enough pressure from their constituents in their communities. Obviously, Trump bads, ICE bad and all of these things. And we don’t check under the hood enough in our own communities to make sure that our representatives are doing the right thing. The Buffer Zone is an incredible example of that. You look who voted for that and you’re like, “Excuse me?” Very progressive people. There are people that support the CURB Act that voted for the Buffer bill. So it’s like keep the pressure. I am not opposed to yelling at these people in public. These are your community members and you can scream at them for not supporting the CURB Act.

[19:42] Simon:

Isabelle, speaking of the CURB Act, can you give us a rundown of what the CURB Act would do? The CURB Act is the Communities United to Reject Police Brutality, and it’s a bill that’s in the city council, and then that’s where Walter has testified. But can you talk about what the CURB Act is, what it would do, why it’s important?

[20:03] Isabelle:

So our work around the SRG started back in 2022 and our broad North Star goal is for the SRG to be disbanded. And that would mean that the unit no longer exists. But not only that, that the funds that that unit receives are actually redistributed to communities and to community programs. That’s a campaign promise that Mayor Mamdani has made. It’s something that we still support. But one piece that has always been part of our thinking is that even if you disband a unit, it’s been done before, they can very easily just transfer that unit’s responsibilities to another unit or create a new unit under a different name, for example, the Street Crimes Unit that we see now.

And what CURB does, CURB comes in to actually work in tandem with the disbandment effort. So what CURB does is it removes the SRG from protests altogether. But to me, the most important part of CURB is that it actually prohibits the SRG’s tactics. So things like kettling, trapping people for arrest, the indiscriminate use of pepper spray, and several other most common SRG tactics would be prohibited across the board. So what that does is it’s a buffer, for lack of a better term, to prevent the NYPD from redeploying the SRG’s tactics just under a different name. And along with that, it also puts in very clear reporting measures and transparency measures that require the NYPD to be sharing rates of arrests, injuries during arrests, misconduct complaints during arrests, so that New Yorkers actually have access to information about how protest policing is going.

So that is what CURB does. And again, we still want the SRG disbanded, but if the SRG was disbanded tomorrow, there is nothing in place that would prevent them from just being recreated. And if the CURB was passed tomorrow, harm reduction would happen immediately as soon as it was enacted. Even without disbandment, they would be removed from protests and we would see those tactics being banned.

[21:58] Simon:

Can you talk about what the current status is of the CURB Act? What needs to happen? You mentioned a bit earlier ago that the need for a hearing. But can you just lay out that step by step where we’re at, what needs to happen, what are the roadblocks to it passing?

[22:16] Isabelle:

The first step, the bill was reintroduced this year. Last year was our first year kind of pushing for CURB. Prior to that, we were pushing for disbandment and doing budget hearings. So it was reintroduced this year. We have 25 co-sponsors, which is great. The next step to get the bill passed is for the Public Safety Committee to schedule a hearing on the bill. That would give, like Walter has done many times, it would give New Yorkers the opportunity to come and testify about the bill. And then it would also, the NYPD would also be invited to testify. And then city council members would have a chance to hear everyone’s thoughts about this bill, and it could be moved to a vote out of committee. So then the Public Safety Committee would have to vote the bill out of committee, and then it would go to the larger council body.

So you need 26 council members signed on to pass a bill, but a veto-proof majority is 34. So if you want to ensure that you can get through mayoral veto, you’re aiming for 34 co-sponsors. Because of the mayor’s position on the SRG, we don’t anticipate that that is an issue. But the barrier right now is a refusal from council leadership to put this bill on the calendar for a hearing. We’re not being told that you need to get to majority first. There was a bill that was put on the calendar for next week that has seven co-sponsors. There is a real just refusal to move this forward. We have strong support in the council. We have council members that are pushing internally, and we have massive support in the community. As Walter knows, this has been going on for years. We have had hundreds and hundreds of people testify to city council. But that is the barrier that we’re coming up against, a real refusal to give New Yorkers an opportunity to have their voices heard around this bill and move it forward.

[23:56] Simon:

Got it. And just so people know, Mayor Mamdani ran part of his public safety plank was to disband the SRG. He has not done that. His commissioner, Jessica Tisch, is a fan of and supporter of the SRG. So yeah, he has not disbanded it. But to your point, Isabelle, the fact that he ran on that would seem to indicate that if the CURB Act got to his desk, he would sign it, but just to lay out that bit of background. And then as my last question, as you said, Isabelle, you talked about the barriers, and I’m curious… I’ll start with you, Walter, because I know you have to go. But what should people do to try to get the CURB Act across the finish line who are listening now and want to help?

[24:43] Walter:

I mean, yeah, we just did a roll call earlier. I mean, listen, blast your council person. Members of city council are the ones that hold all the keys to this. And yeah, what was it? Feliz and Menin are the ones stopping it from going to a hearing, and there’s going to be enough votes. I mean, and this is public pressure works. Erik Bottcher wasn’t on board initially. He was very not on board initially. And I don’t think people, if you’re listening to this, maybe you don’t go to protests. However, they’ve been actively trying to franchise the SRG within each precinct so that they will not… The SRG is not going to just handle protests. The SRG is going to handle a lot of other things, which is terrifying. When I got involved with this, it was bad. We’re like, “Oh, okay, this is…” And that predates all of the massive pro-Palestine protests that went through New York. So you can just imagine how much worse that got after, because that was in 2023, January 2023. I mean, oh, the days.

[25:57] Simon:

Yeah, those were halcyon days for dispolicing, for sure.

[26:00] Isabelle:

Yeah. I mean, I agree. On the Erik Bottcher piece, I think a lot of folks, like New Yorkers in general, but people across the country, your elected officials often seem far away, removed. You can call their office and speak to a person. And they’re just people, your elected officials are just people. They’re people that live in your community. And making your voice heard makes a difference. We have had council members like Erik Bottcher sign on solely because of a campaign volunteer that will not stop showing up to his office and saying, “Hey, I live here. I want you to do this thing.”

[26:28] Walter:

Yeah.

[26:28] Isabelle:

Look, it’s intro. 0796. Look at the list of co-sponsors. If your council member is not on there, give them a call, calling Oswald Feliz, calling Julie Menin. You can join the campaign. If you just look up CURB Campaign, you can sign up as a volunteer and join our coordinated efforts. The biggest thing is talking to your council members. There is political pressure that happens internally that prevents council members from doing what constituents want them to do. And our responsibility as advocates and as constituents is to make sure that the pressure from the public outmatches that. That’s the only way to get things done. So using your voice as much as possible and signing up to get updates on how you can do that would be incredible.

[27:13] Simon:

Amazing. Well, Walter, Isabelle, thank you both so much for coming on Rights This Way. Thank you for listening. You can find more on everything we talked about in this episode by visiting nyclu.org. And you can follow us at @nyclu on YouTube, Instagram, Bluesky, and Facebook. Until next time, I’m Simon McCormack. Thank you for fighting with us to deliver more liberty and justice to all New Yorkers.