Apr 23, 2026

Mamdani, Hochul and the Future of New York with Christina Greer

Perhaps no dynamic defines politics in New York State and New York City in 2026 more than the relationship between Gov. Kathy Hochul and Mayor Zohran Mamdani. The Mayor needs the Governor’s help to accomplish many of the key pillars of his agenda, and the two have already signaled clear areas of agreement and key points of friction.

On this episode, we discuss the promise and potential pitfalls of this relationship with Christina Greer, who understands New York politics as well as anyone. She is an Associate Professor of Political Science at Fordham University and the co-host of the popular podcast FAQ NYC.

And we also speak with NYCLU Assistant Director of Policy Michael Sisitzky who explains some of the top civil rights issues that Hochul and Mamdani must reckon with.

Please, download, rate, review, and subscribe to Rights This Way. It will help more people find this podcast.

Resources

Listen to Christina’s podcast, FAQ NYC

NYCLU Mayoral Agenda

A civil liberties agenda for NY State

NYCLU Executive Director Donna Lieberman arguing for the NY for All Act in the Albany Times Union

Transcript

Christina: [00:00:00] And we know when it comes to public safety, there’s the reality and there’s the perception. No one in an election year wants to start saying that they want to scale back on policing because their opponent, especially if their opponent is a Republican, is immediately going to say, well, you want lawlessness.

Simon: This is Rights This Way, a podcast from the New York Civil Liberties Union, the ACLU of New York State. I’m Simon McCormack, editorial manager at the NYCLU, and your host for this podcast, your best listen for the civil rights and liberties issues that impact New Yorkers most.

Perhaps no dynamic will define politics in New York State and New York City in 2026 more than the relationship between Governor Kathy Hochul and Mayor Zohran Mamdani. The mayor will need the governor’s help to accomplish many of the key pillars of his agenda, and the two have already signaled clear areas of agreement and key points of friction.

On this episode, we [00:01:00] discuss the promise and potential pitfalls of this relationship with Christina Greer, who understands New York politics as well as anyone. She is an associate professor of political science at Fordham University and the co host of the popular podcast FAQ NYC. And we’ll also speak with NYCLU assistant director of policy, Michael Sisitzky, who will explain some of the top civil rights issues that Hochul and Mamdani will be forced to reckon with in the coming year.

Before we get started, just a quick note that outside guests on this show do not represent the NYCLU and their views are their own. And now, Professor Christina Greer and Michael Sisitzky, welcome to Rights This Way.

Christina: Thanks so much for having us.

Michael: Thanks, Simon.

Simon: It’s very great to have you both. Christina, I want to start with you. Can you talk about the dynamics and the relationship between Governor Hochul and Mayor Mamdani?

Christina: Yeah, so when I’m being optimistic, I think that there’s a [00:02:00] lot of bridge building and coalition building that’s possible between the two. We know that Kathy Hochul’s in the midst of a primary election and also a re election year for her, and so it behooves her to sort of try and get that Mamdani base, that Mamdani Momentum behind her, not really for the primary since she’s kind of gotten rid of her lieutenant governor as her challenger and he’s dropped out. So she’ll most likely cruise through the primary season in June and then the real work starts over the summer.

So, really making sure that that Mamdani momentum stays throughout the summer because so much of her success rests on downstate performing. Where it gets a little complicated is that we know that New York City is a very purple, or excuse me, New York State is a very purple state, and very red in many counties. So she can’t go too, too far to the left with the Mamdani base to promise certain things, and we’ll talk about taxing the rich, just because [00:03:00] that’s actually not how statewide politics is run.

And so she needs to stay somewhat in the center, to the left of center, sure, but she can’t alienate and ostracize the more moderate and conservative Democrats, of which there are many throughout the state. So we’ll see the two of them do this interesting dance when it comes to policy that I’m sure Michael will walk us through, where she needs the voters, and she needs the votes, but she also needs to make sure she stays true to the larger Democratic agenda that’s a statewide and not a New York City agenda.

Simon: Okay. And you’ve painted this already a bit, but in terms of, you know, what would you say their biggest point of agreement is, and then where would you say the biggest friction is?

Christina: Well, we’ll start with the biggest friction, which is taxes. I mean, so nobody wants their taxes raised, especially rich people.

And, you know, rich people clearly don’t want to pay their fair share, right? There’s always the conversation of, they’re going to leave New York City. They’re not leaving. Okay, if they were going to leave, they would have left. And so, my [00:04:00] argument on FAQ is always, then get out if you’re that upset. What are you going to do, go to Jersey where they have a higher tax rate?

No. So, this conversation about, oh, we have to keep coddling the wealthy New Yorkers, that’s just utterly ridiculous. But I do think that this idea of anyone in an election year doesn’t want to say anything about raising taxes whatsoever. Where they’re in agreement, I think, are some issues as far as equity and inclusion, when it comes to making sure New York is safe for all New Yorkers, and making sure we don’t exclude particular individuals, especially now that we have so many endeavors overseas. I do think that this idea of affordability she’s willing to work with the mayor on, and trying to figure out how we can make sure people don’t leave the city, and also leave the state.

I think that there are lots of areas. I mean, the good thing is they’re both Democrats. One is a Democratic Socialist, sure, but they’re both of the same party. And I don’t think that we’ll see the de Blasio, Cuomo [00:05:00] level of infighting that we saw. This is going to be, you know, people using the bully pulpit, people using their opportunity, whether it’s Hochul in an election year or Mamdani when he’s starting to think about re election, where they’ll have to sort of lean on one another at times, but also sort of push one another. And we know that the modern Democratic Party nowadays doesn’t do anything unless they’re pushed.

So, Mamdani has to push her from the left, or pull her to the left, should I say. If not, we know that the natural inclination of Democrats in New York State, especially I’m looking at you, Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, the natural inclination is to keep moving to the right and become Republican light.

So it’s the obligation of so many Democrats to try and actually make sure their Democratic leaders, especially statewide leaders and national leaders , actually do what big D Democrats are supposed to do.

Simon: And I want to turn to you, Michael, because, you know, as we talk about those points of agreement [00:06:00] and tension, how do you think those will align? And how do you think they will sort of diverge for our goals, for what we’re hoping to achieve legislatively, both in the state and the city?

Michael: Sure. So we have a wide array of issues that we’re pushing on both the city and the state front, some of which overlap, I think, and dovetail really nicely where there are some of those areas of agreement between Mayor Mamdani and Governor Hochul.

And some that I think will be a real challenge. You know, on the affordability side, like we don’t always think of affordability as like a core civil rights or civil liberties issue, but it really plays out in so many areas of people’s daily lives. One of the issues that we had been supportive of, and that, you know, it seems like there is agreement between the mayor and the governor on, is this idea of pushing a model of universal child care.

That is something that is hugely important to enable New Yorkers to actually live real dignified lives, to actually have opportunities to, you know, thrive in their communities. And it’s something that I think we’re really heartened to [00:07:00] see what could come out of that area of agreement. Where there are other priorities for us, there might be some tension points.

We have a lot that we are asking the legislature to do, on both the state legislative front and the city council front, to really ensure that there is meaningful oversight and accountability of law enforcement, that we’re less reliant on the criminal legal system, that we’re pursuing real alternatives to a default reliance on policing, and we can get into each of those, I think, a bit more fully. But those are areas where I think we’ve seen more openness, certainly from the Mamdani campaign side, where they were talking about an alternative vision for public safety, where there’s perhaps a bit more room for alignment with NYCLU priorities.

And those are always areas that I think we’ve faced a bit more of a challenge in getting the state legislature to pay attention to, and in getting Governor Hochul to really prioritize approaches that are less default reliance on the criminal legal system as a source of [00:08:00] solutions rather than a barrier that we’re trying to work past.

So, I think that’s an area where we might be able to see some potential frictions.

Simon: And yes, let’s jump, let’s jump right into that. Let’s talk, let’s talk public safety and policing. Christina, what is your sense of the biggest conflict between Mamdani and Hochul on public safety and policing? And where do you actually see, if you see any alignment?

Christina: Yeah. And I mean, Michael touched on it. There’s a difference between the campaign phase and the governance phase. And we know when it comes to public safety, there’s the reality and there’s the perception. No one in an election year wants to start saying that they want to scale back on policing because their opponent, especially if their opponent is a Republican, is immediately going to say, well, you want lawlessness.

You want everyone to get murdered in the streets of New York, right? And so we know that Mamdani is already, sort of by the Post and by, you know, right wing pundits, being painted as someone who doesn’t care about the public safety of New [00:09:00] Yorkers. I do think that whenever we start this conversation of like, the outsized budget of the largest paramilitary organization in the United States, and dare I say globally, the NYPD. Whenever we start having conversations about the hundreds of millions of dollars that we spend in overtime, and also lawsuits, and the just, the massive budget that is the NYPD, whenever we think about, well, do we need all this police? Or maybe we can redirect some of this money? And as Eric Adams talked about in his campaign phase, maybe we should put this money into diversion programs, so we actually don’t need so many police on the tail end, right? You use that Desmond Tutu quote, right?

Like, let’s get people before they fall down the waterfall, and we have to pull them out of the water. Let’s actually get them before they actually start drowning. So, when Mamdani says it, it’s immediately that he wants lawlessness and doesn’t care about the safety of New Yorkers. Kathy Hochul, who’s running [00:10:00] against, you know, a MAGA Republican is immediately going to say, she’s just as crazy Democratic Socialist.

Imagine your wives and your children walking the streets of New York State, no matter what small town you’re in. And for a lot of these communities, they’re safer than they’ve ever been. New York City has been, you know, we’ve been trending downward. Obviously there’s still some neighborhoods that seem to have sort of calcified crime and gang violence that for whatever reason, as my grandmother would say, we could put a man on the moon, but we can’t seem to figure this one out, right?

So we can’t seem to figure out how to make certain communities super safe. But by and large, the city is safe. Does it feel safer? That’s the question. And I do think, to Michael’s point, all these things are interconnected. You know, universal basic income or child care, helping people stay in the city with their small children, also means that you have to create a city where people want to stay with their small children.

And so this idea of being on the subway and seeing people who are having mental health [00:11:00] crises or who are unhoused, for short term or long term, gives this perception that the city isn’t as safe. And back in the day, they’d call it, you know, the sort of broken windows, Giuliani type vibes. But this is a conversation that a lot of folks started to have during the 2021 election with Eric Adams, and that’s sort of how we get Eric Adams, because public safety was the big attraction. This time in 2025, it’s affordability, but it still does dovetail into this conversation of public safety, because without affordability, you don’t get public safety.

And so Kathy Hochul is keenly aware of that. But she can’t afford to have the police association turn against her. She might not get their endorsement, but she can’t have them actively campaigning against her. Similarly, Mamdani, this early in his campaign, I mean, I know it feels like, 2026 feels like 12 years already, but he can’t afford to have a de Blasio level moment where the cops turn against him and never [00:12:00] support him again this early in his tenure, especially with these rumblings of he wasn’t supportive of cops before he even got in there. So he already has some road to make up, to dissuade them of certain feelings that they already have about him, but he can’t afford to have them turn against him this soon in his mayoralty. But the footnote is, if you all remember, a few years ago, many years ago, into de Blasio’s tenure, and the police did a slowdown. And they sort of were trying to show de Blasio that, like, you know, without us, we’re basically gonna slow down.

And the city was as safe as it could be. It’s like, don’t play yourselves, right? You all are slowing down, showing us that we actually don’t need this many cops. And when they asked for, what was it, 1, 200? And de Blasio gave them 3, 000. And progressives are scratching their heads saying, well, you promised that you were going to scale back.

We remember the Dante ad. We remember these conversations about stop and frisk. So, this idea that Mamdani has to hold [00:13:00] many of these things in conjunction with Kathy Hochul, who’s running for re election. He’s only, you know, he’s not even 100 days in and has to make sure he doesn’t have de Blasio level, Dinkins level abandonment. And he doesn’t have the luxury that Eric Adams had, which was campaigning on public safety and also being a former cop himself and sort of having that sort of in road already.

Simon: I will say the NYCLU does not have to worry about alienating ourselves from the NYPD. We’ve already done that. So I’m curious, Michael, maybe you disagree, Michael. But what would you say our biggest priorities are this year when it comes to public safety and how do you see Hochul and Mamdani’s relationship helping or hindering those goals?

Michael: We certainly don’t worry about alienating ourselves from the NYPD and the police unions. We do that quite often. But we do also have to worry about getting our priorities through and working within the [00:14:00] realities of those systems and figuring out, like, where we can take what was a really smart idea from a campaign platform and align that with some of the things that we’ve been advocating for and trying to deliver on in reality.

So, I think one of the core areas that we have been advocating for some reforms for quite a while is on the state front, we’ve been pushing for an alternative response to mental health crisis and substance use crises and trying to reduce the set of encounters that occur where you send law enforcement in to respond to a situation that they are not the appropriate response for. They are not trained for it. They are not equipped for it. And where we can deliver what people actually need when they are in crisis, which is actual professional help from medical professionals, from mental health professionals. And this is something that I think there’s been some movement on the state front.

It was a core plank of the Mamdani platform, and it’s an area where I think there’s a real [00:15:00] potential to get this right. On the state front, we’ve been supporting a measure called Daniel’s Law, which has been a core priority for us on the public safety side of the, of our work, which would set up a system by which we are empowering localities to actually set up these alternative response teams for people in crisis. Not send cops in, but send EMTs, send peers who have lived experience with mental health and substance use issues to get people the support that they need.

This legislation was named for Daniel Prude, who was killed in Rochester in 2020 when Rochester police responded during a crisis and did not deliver Daniel the care that he needed and instead ended up killing him in that encounter. So this is legislation where we’ve been advocating up in Albany for a while.

We’ve gotten some commitments from Hochul in the form of funding for programs throughout the state that can demonstrate this type of model. There was a task force that was created a few years ago, as part of the state budget, that looked at some of the ways that this law could be [00:16:00] operationalized, these teams could get supported, and we’re continuing to build on that work.

There’s a real opportunity, I think, to pair that with what we saw from the Mamdani campaign, with this proposal for a Department of Community Safety, where, you know, there’s this, a shared goal of reducing the number of encounters between police and members of the public that just do not need to take place in the first place, because we’re actually sending a response team that folks need when they are in crisis, rather than this default reliance on NYPD or policing in general to solve these crises.

So that’s an area where I think there’s a lot of opportunity to figure out how we can improve public safety and improve quality of life, improve the perception that people have of safety and we’re actually giving people the care and support they need. And it’s an area that we will see, you know, as the proposals for the Department of Community Safety take a bit more shape, if that is something that we can establish and actually fund and adequately set up in the [00:17:00] city.

Simon: Yeah, thank you and you mentioned adequately fund, and I know there’s been some concern from advocates that in Mamdani’s like initial budget proposal, that there wasn’t, didn’t seem to be any funding for, you know this better than I would, but I think some of the reporting has said there didn’t seem to be any funding for the Office of Community Safety. Is that? What’s your take on on that?

Michael: I think my understanding is it was not included in the first preliminary budget. I think they’re still looking at potential of including that perhaps later on as the budget cycle unfolds in the next few months. But this is an area where it’s also important not to fully rush ahead and get things set up before you’re figuring out the actual policies and the structures and the relationships between agencies. It is a really bold and transformative vision that was laid out in the mayor’s campaign platform of creating this department. It’s also really important that we take the time to get it right.

We don’t want to turn this into another entity that is just [00:18:00] replicating failed models of policing, that is not set up to act adequately coordinate between existing agencies. You know, we’ve seen kind of the failures of half measures in the past to get this kind of program right. One of the systems that we currently have set up to respond to folks in crisis in New York City is called the BHEARD system. It, you know, sends, in theory, mental health professionals out to respond to mental health crisis calls, is supposed to be operating in lieu of NYPD. In reality, they have very few teams, they do not operate 24/7, they are largely beholden to the NYPD system, and they don’t respond to the overwhelming majority of calls that they are actually eligible to under the city’s own criteria for it.

So if we just set up something very quickly without the time to really look at all of the agencies that are involved, look at all of the protocols that we need to set up, look at the ways that the NYPD is currently intertwined into all of these systems and establish a [00:19:00] real framework that is going to prevent them from just capturing the system and still turning it into an NYPD response model, we need to take the time to make sure that that is done thoughtfully, that it is done well, and that it is something where, you know, I think it’s, it’s okay with us if we take a bit of time to study those issues and make sure that we are doing this the right way.

Simon: Okay. Well, I’m glad I asked. That was, that was very informative.

So, Christina, I want to move to immigrant rights, and in particular, where you see areas of agreement and disagreement between Hochul and Mamdani around immigrant rights, and also in particular, combating Trump’s deportation machine, some of the violence we’ve seen on the streets inflicted by ICE and other federal officers. Where do you see that playing out?

Christina: I think it’s in motion. I’m a sort of naturally optimistic person, maybe because I’m a professor and I sort of spend time with young people. So like, I tend to lean towards trying to see a [00:20:00] situation where, like, there are some really great moments for good things to happen.

One, I think, knowing that ICE is already in New York, right? We’ve already had instances, not just at the courthouse, but on Canal Street and communities all across the five boroughs. So, this is a very real issue that I think the mayor and the governor are thinking of. And they’re dealing with an irrational actor and unscripted, emotional, the adjectives go on and on, about the president.

But there are a few good things. One, the fact that Mamdani is from Queens and represented Queens, lets us know that he actually does have somewhat of a nuanced understanding of this idea of immigration and immigrants, documented and undocumented. Largely because Queens is literally the most diverse place in the entire United States.

So that’s a good thing. The tension is Kathy Hochul is running to represent all New Yorkers, and there are many upstate Democrats, to say nothing about [00:21:00] independents, who do not want more welcoming immigration policies, whether it’s for documented or undocumented immigrants. So she’s got to thread a pretty complicated needle of folks who are saying, well, I think we have enough folks and, you know, we don’t need to keep welcoming our doors, even though New York City is literally, you know, we’re a nation of immigrants, but we literally have the Statue of Liberty where generations and generations of people have come in from lots of places, even though it was initially Chinese internment camp, Statue of Liberty.

So we’ve got a mixed history in this city, largely. I do think that with the president, Mamdani has been able, right now, because the president likes winners. So he goes to DC, he tells the president he’s pretty, and they have a pretty good meeting, and he can come back, and we’re sort of out of his crosshairs for the moment, right?

So Mamdani’s able to get the Columbia student released relatively quickly. You know, the president said [00:22:00] eminently, and everyone’s like, what does that mean for a president? But it was quite quickly compared to other stories we’ve seen, not just across the country, but in New York in specific. But we also know that that relationship is walking a tightrope over a live wire, over, you know, a den of sharks and lions, whatever visual you want to present, where we know that this relationship could be very short, and it could be very volatile. And we know that New York relies on a lot of money from the federal government, not just the state government. The state government relies on a lot of money from the federal government. So, we’re on this tightrope with a president who has his own vision, dare I say a white nationalist, white supremacist vision, of what the country should look like, and that’s really hard, in a city like New York City.

Kathy Hochul, as of now, seems to be on board with Mamdani, where we should not be kidnapping people, we should not be sort of [00:23:00] deporting people who have done nothing wrong. I think where the rubber hits the road is when we move out of New York City and we start, and she starts campaigning. And folks are saying, well, I don’t care that they haven’t done anything wrong, they didn’t come here the right way. And so, never mind that their great grandparents didn’t come here, quote unquote, the right way, but we’re not talking about that. I’m on the board of the Tenement Museum. So it’s like, let’s be clear, lots of Italians and Irish and Germans and Jewish folks did not come here the quote unquote right way and didn’t speak English either when they came here the quote unquote wrong way.

But, you know, wait a few years and all of a sudden things change. So, I think Kathy Hochul is trying to win so that she can do the most for New Yorkers and so she has to hear these conversations and come up with policies that make the largest number of Democrats and Independents and maybe even weak leaning Republicans who aren’t MAGA Republicans, the small percentage that’s still left, make them feel comfortable that she’s not going to have an open doors policy, [00:24:00] especially since there’s so much misinformation and disinformation about Mayor Mamdani and his feelings towards immigrants and immigration. So that’s kind of where we are on this, like, day to day basis. Does the president decide one morning when he wakes up after he’s, like, dug up another major building, does he want to, sort of, make New York City the new Minneapolis?

Or not, right? I mean, he likes the, sort of, wait and see after this commercial break. So Kathy Hochul is running a race to make sure she wins, but she also has to make sure that she doesn’t go too far to the left, because obviously, Blakeman is going to paint her, as he already has, as the sort of partner in crime of this mayor who wants lawlessness when it comes to public safety and complete and total open borders for all types of immigrants. And that’s, we’re not going to talk about kids in cute bunny hats, but he’s going to focus on, you know, Long Island and MS 13 and, you know, [00:25:00] various gang entities that, you know, quite frankly have nothing to do with Mamdani, but just painting this picture of the politics of fear, which we know for a lot of people, works very well.

Simon: Yeah. And Michael, I’m curious with that background that Christina has just laid out, what do you think our top goals are with regard to immigrant rights in New York City and the state? And how do you see the mayor maybe being able to open up space for us, but also trying to get something done at the state level, where I know we have a lot of hope this year?

Michael: Sure. I’ll start at the state level where, you know, what we have been calling for, for quite some time now , and I think we have a real shot at getting through this session, is New York for All.

And that is legislation that would ensure that we are disentangling local and state law enforcement from furthering Trump’s deportation agenda. It would set up, you know, we often talk about sanctuary protections in New York City. This is about taking some of [00:26:00] the existing sanctuary protections, strengthening them, applying them statewide, and making sure that we are not deploying state and local resources in furtherance of this really cruel and inhumane policy at the federal level. That is legislation that has been picking up momentum this session. We’ve seen already a response from Governor Hochul in including a measure in her budget proposal that was not quite New York for All, but it was a starting point that some of this messaging is starting to get through. There are some proposals on the table that she has put forth on, including some limitations on state and local collaboration with ICE and other federal immigration enforcement, which I think is a signal that everyone is taking this issue seriously.

You know, to be clear, we want to see the full New York for All package. We want to see that go through. We want to see Dignity Not Detention go through as well, which is legislation that would prohibit New York state and local correctional facilities from contracting with ICE to [00:27:00] do the administration’s work of detaining immigrant New Yorkers.

And that’s something that we’re continuing to try to get accomplished in this legislative session up in Albany. On the city front, there are, you know, existing protections that have been in place through executive orders and through city legislation for quite some time. It is refreshing that the rhetoric now at the city level is not of coming from a mayor that has been willing to make deals with the White House to, you know, signal rollbacks or trying to open up ICE facilities on Rikers.

The rhetoric is now much more on the same kind of wavelength as us, which is that we need to defend sanctuary protections. We need to protect immigrant New Yorkers. And there are some concrete steps that the city council can also be taking to shore up some of those protections as well. So we’ve had sanctuary laws for quite a while in the city. We’ve had prohibitions on the Department of Corrections and the NYPD honoring so called detainers, where ICE is just asking [00:28:00] people to be held beyond the period of their detention or incarceration so that they can send an agent to come pick someone up.

We’ve had laws that sharply restrict cooperation with those requests. There are some loopholes in there that we want to see tightened, that we want to see made more protective. And critically, we also want to make sure that when there are violations of our sanctuary laws, that people actually have recourse to address them.

So we know from reporting from the Department of Investigation, that there has been at least one case of NYPD failing to adhere to the city’s sanctuary laws. But there’s not right now in that sanctuary provision, a way for someone to, you know, go directly into court and actually get redress for that violation.

So that’s something that we’ve been advocating for in the City Council, the New York City Trust Act, which would actually give some teeth to the city’s sanctuary protections and make it that much less likely that we’ll see violations in the future when we know that there actually is some kind of built in accountability mechanism.

Simon: Christina, I want to switch gears. We’ve obviously been [00:29:00] talking about Mamdani and Hochul, but I wanted to get your take on the relationship between Mamdani and the city council speaker, Julie Menin. How do you see those two working together? What dynamics are you seeing there?

Christina: Oh, there are lots of dynamics. There are lots of dynamics. So, we know that this mayor is going to be pulled to the center by some Democrats in New York, but he also has to answer to the Democratic Socialists who sort of got him there. So he’ll be pulled more to the left. He’s been very clear. He has to represent 9 million people and the vast majority of New Yorkers are not leftist Democratic Socialists.

That’s just, however the ranked choice voting system delivered Mamdani, but that is, that may be his base, but that’s not the majority of the city. So, there will be times where there’s great tension between the mayor and Julie Menin, who’s a more moderate Democrat. But I think, you know, again, if I’m being optimistic, there are times where the mayor can kind of hide [00:30:00] behind the Speaker of City Council, where it’s like, well, you know, City Council’s making me do this, in a way that sort of appeases his base, because the city council is pressuring him, all 51 members or, you know, 51 minus 5, to do whatever it may be.

I do think that you know, there’s this, Julie Menin’s been very clear, you know, on sort of anti Semitism. I do think that as the mayor is trying to get his footing and explain to all New Yorkers that no one group is going to get priority and no one group is going to be excluded, there’s already a little friction that we’ve seen there because certain groups have been used to getting sort of priorities, and that’s across the city. And Mamdani is saying it’s like well I’m evaluating things based on my new commissioners and we will see how things shake out. So you might have to get in the queue with everyone else. Similarly to the way Eric Adams said, they’re gonna be new people at the table like you all didn’t help me get here so I’m bringing in some new folks.

Mamdani’s [00:31:00] saying a version of that as well. I do think that having a mayor who does not have city experience is going to be a learning curve for him. So he does not come from the city council. He did not hold a city wide elected position, like many of his challengers. He did spend a little bit of time in Albany, not a lot, but enough where at least for tin cup day, he does know where the lights are and the restrooms are and some of the folks who were up there, which is good for New Yorkers when he’s got to actually go up to Albany and talk to certain legislators. Some of those folks were his colleagues.

He wasn’t a big legislator when he was up there, but at least he does know some of the process of how to get certain things done upstate that he needs. It’s the downstate conversation. He does have quite a few progressives who are in the council who will try to assist in his legislative agenda as much as well, they’re the legislative body, but in his agenda, as much as they can.

But I think that we’re going to see an [00:32:00] interesting dance largely because Mamdani nor Menin represent what New York is. I mean, we’re such a diverse, big D diverse, group of New Yorkers. I mean, the vast majority are registered as Democrats, but we know that a lot of New Yorkers are strategically registered as Democrats.

And if they were in any other city, they might be independents, or they might even be Republicans. But because of our closed primary system, if you live on the Upper West Side and you’re a Republican, it does not behoove you to register as a Republican because you will never be able to participate in any of the elections for city council, state legislator, state senate, mayor.

Like, the real action is actually in the primary, so you might as well register as a Democrat. And that’s a lot of neighborhoods in the five boroughs. So this idea that we’ve got so many Democrats, I’m always like, I need to interrogate those numbers actually. And the types of Democrats we have are quite diverse.

And knowing that Mamdani comes from a [00:33:00] faction of the Democratic Party is one thing. And so, you know, Michael started this conversation we’re sort of talking about promises that were made during the campaign. We know that the campaigning phase is not the governance phase, and this is someone with no executive experience.

So it’s not like we can point to his previous executive experience to say, well, when he was the leader of X, he did, he behaved this way. We don’t have that information because that information is non existent. So we’re all in this experiment together. Thus far, I’m optimistic. One, it seems like we have a mayor who likes to read.

As a professor, I’m always happy about that. Two, it seems like we have a mayor who likes to work. Now, some of that may be age. This is what happens when we don’t elect, you know, 60, 70, 80 year olds for our executive offices. But having four years of party cat Eric Adams and basically six of the eight years of Bill de Blasio being anywhere but New York City and interested in the role of governance, I [00:34:00] think it is refreshing after a decade, to actually have someone who looks like, at least for now, looks like he’s interested in the business of putting together coalitions of veterans and new people, because we are in desperate need, as a city, of a baton passing to make sure that this city can thrive with a new crop of leaders.

We literally have some people who worked in the Lindsay administration who are still around. No disrespect to those individuals or hot Mayor John Lindsay. However, we need someone who’s like not from the Koch and Dinkins era to actually mentor new leaders in the city so that we can actually move forward post Mamdani, whatever that looks like.

Simon: Michael, I’m curious where you see the dynamics between Hochul and Mamdani when it comes to homelessness and the twin crises really, of homelessness and mental health care. You kind of touched on it, Daniel’s Law, but I’m curious if you get a sense [00:35:00] of how Hochul kind of approaches those sorts of issues.

Michael: I mean, you know, we saw how Hochul approached that issue not that long ago when, in, you know, response to concerns about, you know, visible homelessness and poverty in the subway system, she flooded the system with the National Guard and sent in co response teams that are largely led by police to remove people from the system.

And, you know, that is an approach that we criticized at the time as security theater and also just counterproductive because that is not actually you know, going to the root of the problem of why there are people who are homeless in the subway system, why there are people with untreated mental illness in the subway system, and it’s just responding with the easiest kind of solution.

We have a very large police force, and they get used. So I think the challenge will be how we set up a system that is actually going to replace that with something meaningful, which is where there is this potential with the Department of Community Safety, if we can get it set up in a way that is actually going to have the personnel, the [00:36:00] resources, and the training that is actually geared towards solving those issues, and that moves us beyond this kind of default reliance on police to go in and solve every societal ill.

And I think that was, again, certainly the rhetoric of the campaign. The reality is going to be quite challenging, especially when some of this is going to be reliant on negotiations on budget with the city council, and that’s another area where the dynamic between Mayor Mamdani and Speaker Menin is going to be front and center.

Is this something that is actually going to be set up and given the resources that it needs to thrive and actually succeed? And is this, you know, something where we’re going to have the support of the state to not, you know, go in with more kind of National Guard deployments, more kind of knee jerk responses, more funding for these co response teams and law enforcement teams?

It’s been a pattern that I think we’ve seen from the state level in budget after budget, whether it’s rolling back some of the protections in bail, in the bail reform laws that [00:37:00] were won several years ago, that you know, in recent years have made it easier for law enforcement to go in and voluntarily commit people to hospitals, whether it’s the funding that we’ve seen from Hochul in budget after budget that is going towards more surveillance, you know, resources for law enforcement, more investments in those types of interventions and approaches.

It’ll be, I think, a real challenge to try to, you know, redirect that into perhaps support for some of the teams that could be set up locally to address those issues, but it’s something that is really needed because that is going to speak to the issues of affordability that the mayor ran on. You know, it needs to be giving people the tools that they need to actually live in and maintain a life here and the issues of quality of life that, you know, have been at the center of so many conversations on public safety, on affordability, and that, you know, we’ve seen still this entrenched default reliance on law enforcement to enforce quality of life, and we have a real opportunity to move away from that.

It can still be [00:38:00] challenging. I think, you know, the one dynamic that we haven’t touched on, could probably be an entire episode unto itself, is the fact that you know, we’ve maintained Jessica Tisch as police commissioner, who has been rolling out quality of life teams, made that a real centerpiece of her focus of management of the department.

So it’s another tension point of how some of the campaign promises are going to translate from what was in the platform versus how that gets delivered in reality with the reality of the institution of the NYPD. But maybe that’s a future conversation.

Simon: Yeah, stay tuned. Stay tuned. Christina, I would love to ask you to prognosticate.

You’ve laid out a beautiful tapestry of the dynamics at work here, but I’m curious if you have a prediction for how this year is going to go as far as, as far as Mamdani and Hochul. What do you think they’re going to be able to accomplish?

Christina: Okay, well at least we narrowed it down to that because I was like, Simon, I don’t know. I don’t think anyone knows. So [00:39:00] the prediction between Mamdani and Hochul, you’re saying?

Simon: Yeah, what they’re going to be able to accomplish, and also if you think there’s just things that they’re just not gonna.

Christina: Yeah, so I mean, on the one hand we know Mamdani wants slash needs Kathy Hochul to get re elected.

So he’s going to push her, I mean, but he’s already endorsed her. So that’s a chip that he’s already sort of given her, in hopes that, you know, they can negotiate because he also has to show quite a bit the first 100 days. And previously I said, you know, the president likes him because he’s a winner. We know the president will turn against him if he feels as though Mamdani’s a loser.

And if he feels that, you know, New York City is turning against the mayor, he won’t give the mayor anything. So there’s this real tension between the two of them because they understand that for Mamdani to succeed, kind of Hochul has to succeed. For Hochul to succeed, Mamdani needs to succeed as well because if the president then decides to sort of reign his, you know, world of terror on New York City and New York State the way he’s done [00:40:00] in other cities and other places, that’s terrible for all New Yorkers.

And, I mean, we’ve seen his policies hurt not just Democrats, they hurt Independents and Republicans as well. So moving forward, I think, the first things first, we have to get past, like, the symbolism of the first 100 days. It’s arbitrary, but we always kind of create these arbitrary markers. Mamdani needs to sort of show certain things that first 100 days. And he’ll need Kathy Hochul, whether it’s making sure that childcare is codified, or, you know, extending pre K and 3K for New Yorkers, and making sure that that, you know, is a better organized system. Remember, lots of people under Adams said, it’s like, it’s here, but, I don’t, I mean, my kid’s going three boroughs away, like, what is this system, you know, and there’s a quality control issue there.

So maybe shoring that up, and so having something to say these first 100 days. And then Kathy Hochul has to get past her primary, as symbolic as it may be, but moving beyond sort of this like historic two female ticket, really utilizing Adrienne Adams, who’s [00:41:00] a fantastic campaigner, in a way that Kathy Hochul just isn’t.

As I always say, she’s got kind of like awkward Hillary Clinton vibes. So you have to make sure, you know, you know your strengths and weaknesses. I don’t think I’m saying anything that’s like, you know, not obvious to anybody who’s got two eyes. So making sure that the summer is useful, even with who knows what’s going to happen on the national level and even international level and how those conversations come into New York State and New York City politics, whether it’s a fiscal conversation, whether it’s an ethical conversation, whether it’s a larger Middle East conversation, which tends to be a third rail in Democratic politics right now. And then getting past November. And so, some of that will be an economic conversation. And can Mamdani and Hochul essentially say, maybe New Yorkers, you’re not doing as well as you think you could or should, not because the governor has done anything wrong, but because of what’s going on at the federal government.

So, sort of using what’s [00:42:00] happening way at the top of the ticket to balance themselves out. And that’s them working in conjunction, but still fighting on behalf of New Yorkers, writ large. Where they can have that tension is, you know, this idea of taxing the rich, which is a central tenet of the campaign promise of Mamdani, is something that Kathy Hochul’s been very clear that she does not want to do, especially as she’s trying to get this Buffalo Bills stadium, especially as she’s, she and her husband have quite a few friends that would be in that tax the rich category. I think that she already has a bit of a win. Mamdani didn’t go to the rally. You know, the rally was by and large much smaller than a lot of folks anticipated.

There are ways that I think that she can compromise without sort of making it a big banner. You know, Cuomo raised taxes on certain individuals in the past. It has been done. We’ve done a lot of these things just on a smaller scale, pre COVID, especially. So I think that there are ways that they can compromise, and this is where the Albany, [00:43:00] short tenure as it may be, comes in handy, and this is where election year comes in handy.

But we’ll see, I think, a dance around one another. We also have to recognize, Mamdani is a fantastic campaigner. And so, I think, where a lot of Democrats fail is that they’ll have specific policies that either they want or that they’ve accomplished, and they don’t know how to sell them, either before it’s across the finish line or even after the finish line.

Obama, famous for it. Obama didn’t even create Obamacare. Republicans named it that, right? He’s got the America Rediscovery Back to Work Act something something whatever. There’s money in your pocket, right? Now, I’m not saying sign the checks with a big black magic marker, but there are a lot of ways that Democrats sort of do things for the good of the people, and then it’s just like, oh, the people will just find out.

It’s like, no, they won’t. So I think this is a positive that we actually have a great communicator who could possibly communicate Kathy Hochul’s ideas better than Kathy Hochul, [00:44:00] to a certain extent. So when they start working in conjunction, he can actually sell them to New York City, so that we make sure New Yorkers turn out to vote in November, feeling, you know, that maybe for their own local election, it’s the same old 66 with the same, you know, member of Congress at the top of the ticket, and they might not be terribly excited. And we know that midterm turnout is usually much lower, and in a place like New York, it doesn’t feel super competitive. It’s not Texas. It’s not Pennsylvania. It’s not Ohio. But still making sure people understand, like, this is a very important race in New York City.

New York City had 20 years of Republican mayors. New York State had, you know, Pataki for three terms. So it is possible to have Republican leadership statewide and in the city. So like, look alive. If you care about these policies, you need to make sure that Kathy Hochul gets across the finish line. It’s up to you to do that.

Simon: Very interesting year ahead. Thank you both so much for painting it for us and giving us some idea of what to expect. [00:45:00] Christina, Michael, thank you so much for coming on Rights This Way.

Christina: Thanks, Simon.